A Nazi on Wall Street Podcast
A Nazi on Wall Street Podcast
EMERGENCY PODCAST: Trump Indictment
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
EMERGENCY PODCAST: Jay and EJ digest the news of twice impeached former president Trump’s indictment and pending criminal charges. As every news agency under the sun has observed, this is an unprecedented moment—but perhaps a predictable one. This is a rapidly evolving story and by the time you hear this, there may be more indictments, charges, or unpredictable reactions. Tune in!
(warning: salty language)
[Photo by Bermix Studio on Unsplash]
Welcome to a Nazi on Wall Street Podcast, because every time history repeats, the price goes up.
Speaker 2I am Dr. Jay Weichselbaum. I'm a historian and producer of the a Nazi on Wall Street Project,
Speaker 1And I'm EJ Russo. I'm just a regular guy who has grown concerned about the recent rise of anti-democratic sentiment growing around the world, and is just trying to figure out what is really happening. Jay and I created this podcast in part to help promote his project, a Nazi on Wall Street, but to also discuss troubling current events and give them historical context. And today, Jay, we have the most troubling, the most current event<laugh>, that we could have ever have planned to discuss. And that's why we are doing this emergency podcast right now. It's just been a couple days since we found out that, um, something happened. What, what I, I forget what happened.
Speaker 2Everybody else has a take. Why shouldn't we?<laugh>, uh, uh, uh, let's see. Uh, Thursday was indictment day.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Yep. Uh, Donald Trump has been indicted, uh, for the first time, perhaps not the last, uh, for, uh, hush money payments to Stormy Daniels in the lead up to the 2016 presidential campaign
Speaker 1That we think, I mean, the, the indictment at this time, it remains unsealed, or sorry, the, the indictment at this time remains sealed. We, we will know what the charges are during arraignment where I, I, I, my, my wife is going to law school. I am not going to law school, so I, I must, I think the arraignment is where the defendant pleads guilty and not guilty. In this case, it'll be not guilty. I mean, obviously, but, um, the, and it's the, the Manhattan Court DA, we assume is, you know, because they had been focusing on the alleged hush money payment to a porn star to remain silent, and that, you know, the, the money, you know, allegedly came from elect, uh, election funds. Uh, and that is, you know, violation of election laws. We assume that that's what this indictment is for. Uh, we don't really, we don't really know, right?
Speaker 2Yeah. Well, the, one of the most compelling, uh, bits of information, uh, to come after this or basically, uh, teaser is that, uh, I believe it's c n n, they claim to have anonymous sources that say there are over 30 counts, uh, for this particular indictment that Trump is facing, um, of a business fraud and perhaps election law, uh, um, violations.
Speaker 1Uh, now that just screams to me that okay, yeah, the first time I heard, because at first I heard like it was two dozen, then I heard 30, and now I hear 34. I have no idea how many actual charges there're going to be, or how many counts there're going to be charging, uh, Trump for. But like, my initial reaction was like, they're just, they're just trying to see what sticks,<laugh>, I mean, I, yeah. Yeah. I guess maybe, I guess like you can see like, oh my God, there's 34. You can say, wow, they're really, they're really going after every single thing that possibly went down. But on the other hand, it's like, okay, well, this is blatantly them trying to take a old case that everybody forgot about over the last two or three years. And the new da, uh, Alvin Bragg, you know, I initially, and, and, and correct me if I'm wrong, initially wanted to sit on this, didn't really want to focus on this anymore. He was like, okay, well, we're just, we're not going to be focusing on this investigation. Uh, we're not gonna be, uh, seeking indictment at this time. And everybody in New York got really angry at him. And so that put pressure on him to now free focus on, on this investigation. And I think it can be seen that, you know, o obviously Trump and his team, they're gonna try to blame politics regardless of what happens mm-hmm.<affirmative>, regardless of who's bringing the charges, who, you know, what kind of indictments there are. But it's just, it's, it's, it, it, I feel like that amount of, of, of, of counts, it, it can be easily seen as like, okay, well, let's, we're just trying to throw anything up at the wall, and if anything sticks, awesome. Um, you know, yeah. The, the grand jury may and have indicted them on, on the charge of violating election laws, and that is a felony, but a lot of these things are misdemeanors. And if you're going for the big fish, you, you better hit, you better hit. Because if he, if he gets off, man, like this is, this is a huge risk, you know, it is a really, really big risk. And yeah. Okay. You can see this as this is just the beginning. Um, you know, there's, there's likely more charges to come. I mean, you have the election fraud charges in Georgia, uh, you know, where I, uh, he pressured state officials to falsify election results, then there's mm-hmm.<affirmative>, everything with January 6th, you know? Yeah. And Yep. Ooh, you know, I mean, and then
Speaker 2We got classified documents.
Speaker 1Yep, yep. You got the do classified documents. I mean, it's just, it's not looking good for Trump. But it was a surprise to me, and I think a lot of other people that the first indictment to come wa was this. And I, I hear a lot of people saying, well, you know what? Like, this is, this is, this is a huge risk because is it a slam dunk? Not by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, this is the weakest case against Trump. Um, and I hear other people say that, well, this is just the, the, the seal of the dam breaking and, and you're gonna start seeing a whole bunch more, a bunch of other charges start coming our way. Now, now that, you know, someone has taken the plunge and has decided to indict a former president, but I, I, I, you know, I, Trump is already seeing a huge bolster of donations coming his way. I think he earned$5 million just in the last four days. So, like, I'll be, I'll be honest with you, man, like, I'm, I'm, I'm anxious, but I'm also, uh, man, I'm embarrassed, man. Like I know, we, I know that you, we, we kind of touched upon this a little bit, but I, man, like, I can't believe I saw it. I saw this company coming back in 2015, you know, when he came down the, the golden escalator, and I'm like, man,<laugh>, like, he wins like this. This is an embarrassing embarrass. Uh, this is an embarrassment because like, it, he blatantly does not give a crap about the rule of law. He blatantly does not care about Americans. He doesn't care about anybody except his own brand. And this is a dangerous, a dangerous position the United States is going into, because you have somebody that literally will sell his mom to get what he wants. And Yeah. Yeah. If you have somebody like that that has no scruples, you know, he, it doesn't matter what happens at the Constitution, it doesn't matter matter what happens to our institutions, just as long as it helps Trump, you know, everything is at risk. And I saw it at that moment, and when, then, then when he got elected, and then everything else that's happened since. And I just, I'm so embarrassed that we're here at this point, that we even have to have this discussion that we even have to have this, this podcast. You know? I know everybody and their second cousins are having, having this conversation<laugh>. But like, it's just, it's so, I'm, I mean, am I, am I wrong to feel just blatantly embarrassed as, as an American right now that we have to Yeah. Be in this position?
Speaker 2I mean, there's, yeah, yeah. I, I, the, the embarrassment conversation, uh, it's, to me, it's, it's, uh, it's even, it's, it's deep because, you know, uh, uh, the way the Republican party is, is acting and reacting to this is, uh, you know, sa basically making the argument that presidents are kings that we essentially live in, in a mar a monarchy, kind of like a very deeply anti-American sentiment<laugh>, um, that, you know, that some people are above the law. Yes. That's embarrassing. And like directly kind of harms, uh, um, America's diplomacy, uh, standing in the world, um, direct, uh, efforts to, uh, uh, um, to do things. Uh, there's a hot war in Europe. All, all this stuff. Uh, two points, uh, I wanted to bring up, um, one is that, um, uh, the, this, this, the 30 counts, the cnn, uh, source thing, that's, yeah, That's, that's interesting to me because, um, you know, to me that says substantive, um, that says there's a lot stuff going on, not as much throw everything against the wall. Um, uh, I, I had a different take on that. Um, and, and part of that is that, you know, yes, this was a case that was already developed. Somebody went to jail for this already, this exact Michael Collins case, right? So, like, uh, so to me, you know, um, there's already been a lot of groundwork and then there's, you know, context for Alvin Bragg too. You know, I think I, you know, again, historian hat on, kind of looking at the context for this, you know, uh, uh, bill Barr came in, uh, when Trump was in office, and he shut this investigation down, like, yeah, like actively, uh, this wasn't, uh, this was a very intentional move on Bill Barr's part. Um, he made sure that, uh, that nothing went any further. So, you know, um, I, I give Alvin Bragg a little bit of leeway for the intense, already this case has basically already been intensely politicized for several years now. Um, and that, you know, when you pick it up again, yes, I can see, I can see that, you know, the groundwork's already been laid for all the charges. Stuff, uh, uh, the embarrassment thing, uh, I think ej you really touched on it, that it's, it's extremely worrisome that, um, that, uh, one of the two major political parties is basically, uh, taking a stand against American democracy, uh, in, in a kind of a fundamental way, saying that, you know, we, we elect a king, and they're, uh, they, they rule by divine, right? Essentially mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Like, they can't be touched even after they're out of office, which is ridiculous. You know, that's like, even, even for<laugh>, our, our slave owning founding fathers who had some very problematic views about freedom, uh, that would be an anathema to them, right. That, you know, so, uh, yeah. And, and then, um, here's something I, I would love to hear your take on, you know, um, I was watching, um, Rachel Maddow, uh, Rachel Maddows recently put out a podcast that, um, also deals with Nazis and spies in 1940. Yeah. Um, actually, uh, very different stories than the ones we cover, but I've been, I've been paying attention to what she's been saying lately. Um, uh, and, um, she, she, uh, she, her reaction, uh, to this news was that, um, this is actually should be boring. That this case is boring. The facts are boring, business fraud and stuff. What's, but what's not boring, and what's extremely disturbing about this is outta nowhere, some other politician completely unconnected, uh, won a one. Ron DeSantis governor of Florida said he would not extradite Trump if, uh, if Trump decided not to surrender. And that is, that creates the groundwork directly for a constitutional crisis that is extremely worrisome. It's also a, I mean, it's beyond embarrassing, right? So, I, I don't know, which
Speaker 1I think think he's full of crap. Yeah. I think he's full of crap. He's not gonna, he's, he's not, he's trying to walk a very fine line where he's trying to keep the maga base, but also distance himself from a, an opponent such as Donald Trump. Like, how does one do that you need as a right wing populist to, to, you know, uh, to engage and excite that, that maga base that was originally Ted Cruz's, and then Donald Trump took it and really just blew it up. Um, but now Ron DeSantis is a competitor of Donald Trump. And I, I mean, I don't know if you've seen the polls, but DeSantis has not been, been doing well compared to Donald Trump. And, you know, he, he's in a really tough spot, and yeah, he can, he can talk a good game. But we just realized, um, and it's, uh, to date this, this podcast, it's April 2nd, 2023. Uh, he didn't have such a great outcome when he went after Disney, uh, Disney
Speaker 2<laugh>
Speaker 1Totally showed him why they pay for the greatest lawyers probably in the entire world. Um, Hey,
Speaker 2His lawyers not worse.
Speaker 1Yeah. Oh my God. Like, so I just, I don't buy Ron DeSantis. I'm not afraid of Ron DeSantis, and I think that he is just, he's talking, he's trying to talk a good game. But if pus comes to shove, I mean, he also said this after Trump admitted that he was going to turn himself in.
Speaker 2Right? Right. His lawyer said he was gonna surrender. I mean,
Speaker 1So, yeah,
Speaker 2Why don't, you know, you can't trust. He might not<laugh>, but we assume he is.
Speaker 1Well, good luck with that. Good luck with that.
Speaker 2Apparently, there's a thing called a writ of Mandamus, uh, which, uh, the, uh, uh, Alvin Bragg would file, um, if, uh, if Trump did not turn himself in, and if, uh, governor Ron DeSantis decided not to, uh, fulfill his duty as a dually elected officer, um, that would compel the Supreme Court to force him force DeSantis to do what he's refusing to do. But, uh, we haven't gotten there yet. So stay tuned, everybody for Tuesday afternoon, uh,<laugh> in a couple days from now,<laugh>.
Speaker 1So, I mean, I think what I would love to hear is obviously everybody is, is talking about this right now, um, and every time I hear whether it's whatever, whenever, if I read the New York Times, or if I watch cnn, or if I, you know, uh, young Turks or, or even even Fox News, right? If I'm going through all of this, like this is gonna be the crime of the, or the, the, the trial of the century and right, yada, yada, yada. Obviously, it's going to kind of make or break whether, whether United States still has a functioning liberal democracy, rule of law, all that type of stuff. And it's super pessimistic if you let your thoughts go to conclusion. Um, but I, I don't believe the adage what, what doesn't kill you, make you, makes you stronger. What doesn't kill you makes you unbelievably weakened. So the next thing that comes along will kill you. You know, like I, I, and so I feel like this is a, this is something the whole, the whole Tea Party, Maga Trump nonsense, this whole right wing populist movement that has, that has, uh, taken, taken the United States by storm with a bullet, you know, uh, it, it, it has it, it will leave the, our liberal democracy in such a, uh, a, a disarray and, and it's such a weakened state that we will be too weak. We, no one will take us seriously. People will not, uh, people, you know, like we are so ripe to be taken over by an, you know, an autocrat or an authoritarian regime, uh, that just scares the crap outta me. And when I brought this to you, when you, you actually called as soon as it happened, I was driving home from work, and you called and you were like, ej, they indicted it. I'm like, get the heck outta here. And we had a very similar conversation, but you had a very much more positive spin on this, where you were optimistic about this. And so, I would love to, I would love for you to give me, you know, to, to, to, you've talked me off the ledge multiple times. I need you to do it one more time, bro.
Speaker 2All right. All. Well, I'll try, um, you know, um, uh, a couple different, uh, you know, while, you know, every, I've been taking in as many different takes, uh, as I can, um, and, uh, you know, I too sample a lot of different media. Um, two takes come to mind, uh, to return to Maddow's take, this is the v this is very boring take, is that she was saying, you know, like politicians run under indictment all the time, um, over, I used to live, uh, in Buffalo, New York, uh, and familiar with, uh, uh, a one, Chris Collins, uh oh. Who was, yeah. Yeah. He, I mean, he was famously like, I think doing insider trading on, on the White House lawn. Yeah. Making trades on his cell phone, you know, and then he, he got indicted. He was running for office, uh, in, uh, um, I believe it's New York's 27th District, uh, which is right next to Buffalo. It's kind of in a, uh, of, uh, uh, part of it is overlaps with a fairly white, wealthy neighborhood. So his, you know, his demo, um, and, um, he was, he, I believe he was indicted that summer of 2018, leading up to, uh, the big blue wave 2018, uh, midterms. Um, and, um, and actually won<laugh> that election just by a hair, really. It was very close. It was like 49% to 48%. It's like hair close photo finish. Um, but it's like, and just to set aside the implications of hi his race and all that, but like, just to say that we're used to politicians running under indictment, just not our president. Um, and, and yes, that it does matter, you know, the president is, is, you know, one of the most powerful people in the world, uh, and, um, that, that has different implications. That was one take that, that made me think, okay, this is, this is normal. Our hair shouldn't be on fire. I, I mean, plenty of other countries have done this. Uh, uh, you know, uh, there, there are plenty other nations where, where presidents have, have been, uh, have, have been in legal trouble and actually gone to jail. Um, so that was one take. The, the other take, um, was, um, you know, uh, uh, uh, pod Saved America. I was listening to them, um, the other day, you know, and their, their take was also, you know, that like, this is, this is, uh, this is not new. Um, but they had an, um, they had an analyst on who was looking at, uh, uh, like the respo various countries, uh, uh, doing this type of legal action to a leader and, and how it, what affects it had on their democracies. And, um, and essentially the analysis was in, in older democracy, young democracies is more problematic if, like, cuz if, if you have a, if you have a weak, unstable democracy where every president is prosecuting the last president, that's bad. That makes sense. You know, it's like they're just, it's just a cycle of revenge. But in older democracies, uh, like the US and in Western Europe, um, there tends to be, uh, it, it tends to have healthy effects. People see it as, and, and this is why focused on the count, the number of counts. Because essentially this analyst, uh, from Patsy of America was saying that even though, uh, people will perceive this as politicized, the number of counts, the number of actual, um, frames that, that the, uh, the leader is, uh, being prosecuted for matters because it reaches a certain threshold where people are like, okay, yeah, he's probably guilty of something. Um, and then people tend, and we're talk, we're not talking about like maga true believers here, but just the general squishy middle of, of the US population tends to accept, uh, that, that this is, this is an adjudication of the law, that like this person was actually guilty of stuff. And, and that, that, that, that that kind of process of accountability, which is something I said in our initial call actually is healthy, uh, for our democracy. That, that this is, this is not, if we're looking at politicization, uh, is, is bad, and that leads to polarization. And then on one hand, and then accountability, uh, and, and showing that no one's above the law, and like adding to deterrence and showing that that institutions work on the other hand as being more positive, we're leaning towards that more. So that's, that's really, that's really my take is that, uh, you know, and, and the thing is just the context, and I know we, we just discussed this a tiny bit. There's a lot of other cases coming. So we're heading towards that kind of model that, that this, this analysis I'm referencing is, is talking about that there's gonna be a lot of charges, there's gonna be a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1Can you name me a, uh, an old democracy where they indicted and charged and tried a ex-president, ex-prime minister, yada, yada, yada. And the democracy was stronger as a result. Question mark.
Speaker 2I mean, this is, uh, what this has happened in, uh, it's happened in, uh, in, in France. This happened in, in, uh, uk, uh, Germany, uh, uh, you know, I, I I don't would you call Brazil an older democracy? Luckily, Bolson arrows look is in trouble. Um, looks, I mean, we haven't talked about Israel kind of in split screen. Very interesting stuff going on in Israel compared to, uh, what's going on, uh, in the us. Um, you know, there, uh, there's, yeah, there's, there's, there's plenty, uh, of other places in the world where this, this happens. And it's not the end of the world. Um huh. You know, uh, justice is delivered and, and people still have faith in their institutions. Uh, and that's, you know, that's the hope here, right? It's kinda, the underlying fear is people are gonna lose hope. And then that, yes, that leaves, that weakens us, that leaves room for more autocrats in the future and so on. But that, you know, the, the opposite can occur too. People see justice being adjudicated for people who seem to be powerful enough to be above the law, quote unquote, um, and actually do face justice. And that, that gives other people the feeling that their institutions are stronger.
Speaker 1So, going back to Chris Collins, was that, is, was that the guy from Buffalo? Yeah. So he was indicted and he was found guilty.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1And he's still won.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1That could happen with Trump.
Speaker 2Yes. Yes, that could. I mean, that's one of the reasons I brought the example up, was that rep I, I did want to talk about, you know, it, what deeply disturbs me here is that Republicans have essentially adopted criminality as part of their identity that they're, which is so ironic is law and order, but of course, uh, it's, it is a explosion. But of course, um, you know, fascists only user well in language, everything is projection. Everything is, every accusation's a confession. Everything's about, you know, turning, turning around the crime that they're committing on, those they're perpetrating the crimes against. Um, that being said, that's, that is a real problem for us because you can't really an outlaw party that like things crime is fine. How, how is that gonna work for us going forward? I don't know.
Speaker 1I, I mean, that's where my pessimism comes from, Jay. I, I don't, I, I don't<laugh>. I just don't, I don't feel like this is something so here, okay, great. Yes. Law and order rules. If Trump is indicted and then he's tried and found guilty and he loses the election, and then we can get to move on, we can, you know, bandaid certain, you know, pains that we have felt and struggles and fears and, and, you know, uh, uh, you know, uh, damages to certain parts of of our institutions. We can, we can grow and thrive and heal and all that type of stuff. But if he is found not guilty, and no other indictments come up and he wins election, or some other person who is, who's carrying his, his torch wins the election. I mean, that's it. That's, that's what I'm, that's what I'm worried about.
Speaker 2Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm gonna sound like a, oh, his pod Save the World by way, not Pod Save America, which is, I mean, they're part of the same, um, group of podcasts, uh, that had the analyst on about, you know, looking at various democracies. Definitely check it out. Um, but, um, I mean, I'm gonna sound like a broken record here, but we are in a paradigm shift where we really don't know<laugh> where the hell we're gonna land. Here we are in this change moment. This unprecedented thing has happened. It's got major implications. We're kind of in the middle of the, it unfolding before our eyes a new status quo and aftermath will come after. We don't know what that looks like. And I've been told many, many times, uh, that, uh, and we've said many times, historians should not pro prognosticate too much. We're very bad at it. Um, even though, like the whole point of history is to, is to help inform the present. So, you know, I, it, it, it depends a lot. I mean, we can start to see some evidence peeking through like, uh, 2020, um, there were, uh, a lot of Republican candidates who supported the big lie, right? That, that, um, uh, that that leaned into the January 6th lie that Trump stole the election, um, across the board, voters punished those candidates and did not elect them. Um, and then except for the
Speaker 1Deep red, uh, yeah. Areas, yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah. And then, and then you're starting to see with, you know, with DeSantis and versus Trump, you're starting to see, uh, a, a dynamic unfold in the Republican party, or at least I think maybe we're seeing, and, and this is my own opinion, maybe it's out of too much optimism that like the Republican party above all wants to win and knows it can't win on that, on that lie. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Um, and so yeah, you have to have a new primary challenger. You have to have people who, who need to, otherwise they, yeah. They're not gonna continue to, to win offices outside of these kind of deep red areas that they already, uh, control. So, so they, they are in fact, um, reacting and experiencing and things are changing, uh, because of this dynamic. But we're so right in the middle of it that it's hard to see. I mean, 2024 is really gonna be a big test again for us to see, uh, you know, how the voters respond. Because I, I, if what happens, what I think will happen, uh, is that investigation, uh, cloud of investigations, which hurt Hillary Clinton. Why wouldn't they hurt Trump? I mean, he is gonna be the, uh, as somebody, I forget who tweeted this, somebody said that, you know, the, the, um, the, the D N c uh, convention, uh, uh, is gonna be in Atlanta and Trump could literally be right down the road in court<laugh>. Well, while we're, uh, uh, renominated Biden for president in 2024, that's that split screen is, I don't, I don't know how much other than like the, you know, die in the wool partisans. I don't know how much the average Republican voter is gonna deal with that. We've seen the trend now since 2018 that like kind of these middle of the road voters, the suburb, the suburban folks, we saw this, I mean, I spent a lot of time looking at, um, Coller County voters, uh, in and around Philadelphia and Pennsylvania, and how they, there's been this kind of dramatic shift away from the Republican party. I only see this as just solidifying that which is very bad for Republicans. It means that, like the quote unquote blue wall of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, uh, Michigan had been re rebuilt. Michigan in particular has been in the news. It's like a much bluer state than it used to be. You know, like this, this creates some untenable math, um, for Republicans. And in the backdrop of them not being able to win a national popular vote at the presidential level, they've only won once in a generation now. Um, and the newer generation is even more against them, uh, than the previous. So, you know, I, you know, and all this to say, you know, they're, they're acting like cornered animals cuz they are, because like, they really are running out of options. They have to destroy democracy now in order to rema retain power. We're there, we're at that moment. So it really, it really does matter a lot what happens in this next election and the context of, of these, these cases. This is like the story to return to what you said at the beginning, you know, this is this, this is the, the, the case of the century. It's until, yeah, like Monday when Georgia announces their in dining in there<laugh>,
Speaker 1Man, I just, and, and to me like that is going to be the moment where I can finally breathe a sigh of relief. Because if everything is hinging, uh, on this, uh, this New York case, man, 2024 is gonna be even more nerve-wracking than 2020. Um, because you're gonna have Donald Trump doing everything that he can to fight this, this charge mu uh, mud rake, use right wing media, social media, all that stuff. Um, and it's going to be, it's gonna be dirty and ugly. Um, and, you know, the, the news media is gonna do nothing but amplify everything because they're addicted to clicks, they're addicted to ratings, and they're not going to give a crap about, uh, um, you know, verifying whether something is true. They're just gonna hear a sound bite and they're gonna go with it, and it's gonna spread around the world regardless of whatever's true or not. And I feel like this is, this is where Donald Trump thrives, is creating a media circus in order to take down an opponent, right? Yeah. And yeah, if you start seeing, you know, Georgia come with an indictment mm-hmm.<affirmative> or Washington come out with an indictment, you know, God it, like department justice, do something. Please.
Speaker 2They're busy. It's, they're doing well. Well, there things are happening. I mean, I feel like we can't say the shoe shoes are dropping anymore. I I have a feeling now it's, it's going to be raining shoes.<laugh><laugh>, uh, we we're feeling, oh, there's a shoe. Oh, I felt another shoe on my head. Oh my gosh, there's so many shoes. Uh, two other, uh, news stories kind of happened this week in the wake of other big news stories. One is that, uh, a one Allen Weisselberg, cfo, F yes Trump businesses, right? Uh, has his, his attorneys that were paid by Trump, um, have been, have left, or he's fired them, and now his counsel is from, uh, the prosecutor's office in, in, uh, yeah. In New York City. That is a, if you're, if you're looking at this as a mob case, which it basically is, uh, yeah.
Speaker 1That, that's all
Speaker 2This is, that's a very bad sign.<laugh>, uh, for, for Trump worlds. Um, I mean,
Speaker 1That means, that means that weisselberg, the C F O or the former C f O of the Trump organization has flipped, right? That's
Speaker 2What this means. What timing. Yeah. You know, um, he knows where the, the figurative, uh, bodies, bodies are buried. And then the other major thing was, um, uh, so that's, that could be this case that we, we've got the indictment for. It could be, you know, New York state's also looking at Trump's finances as kind of a separate, uh, issue. So there's that too. So there's two major things coming outta New York, but then also we saw in the news, uh, that, um, Trump's lawyers in the classified documents case, the attorney-client privilege was pierced. And that in itself is a huge deal that very, very, very rarely ever happens. It's kind of considered sansan sacred Yeah. Uh, in American law. But, but you cannot<laugh> you, you cannot have attorney-client privilege, uh, or be protected by it if you're doing that in on behalf of a crime. And there was enough, uh, uh, evidence on its face that showed that, that convinced a judge to actually change that in the classified documents case, which is, to me, it also seems extraordinarily foreboding for, for Trump world.
Speaker 1So, so attorney client privilege is not absolute
Speaker 2No. No, it is not. Whoa. Not if you're doing, if you're doing crimes, not if you could prove to do crimes.
Speaker 1I always thought, I don't know, maybe I gotta talk to my, my, uh, my law student wife more often, I guess. Yes. Uh, so I super
Speaker 2Rare, super, super rare. Yeah. But it can be pierced, and it was in this case, and that is also a Wow, I, I see that it's an extraordinarily bad sign for Trump. And the thing is, you wanna talk about jail, you wanna talk about, like, I wanna see, you know, all the people will say, I wanna see Trump frog marched. I wanna see him in cuffs like the, the, the law surrounding classified documents. I mean, you look at, you know, reality winner or, um, um, you know, other cases that are out there, uh, even just a little bit of mishandling classified documents sends you to jail. And this dude lied to the F b I had to have his house rated, still may even have documents. I, I hear mm-hmm.<affirmative> maybe, um, uh, isn't, and, and we're not talking about like a couple documents we're talking, we wanna talk about number of counts, like hundreds and hundreds of documents, uh, including like top high, you know, above top secret. Uh, so, um, that seems to be, uh, the one, if any of these crimes are gonna send Trump actually behind bars, to me, I'm still, I'm still looking at that. So when we saw the, um, the attorney-client Privilege Pierce this week, I was also like, oh boy, that's, that's really gotta be, um, uh, stressful for a certain orange participant of, uh, the Mar-a-Lago, uh, stratosphere.
Speaker 1So y you said that they're all busy, but how long is this supposed to take? Why, why does it seem like nothing is happening?
Speaker 2Right, right. I mean, well, yeah, there, I mean, there's a lot of ways to look at this, uh, you know, with the January 6th and stuff, you know, it's like we're talking about tons of participants, we're talking about powerful people. Um, yeah. Department of Justice w uh, was filled with Trump appointees who were there to, uh, slow things down or cause problems internally, who the heck knows mm-hmm.<affirmative>, uh, what do OJ had to do to like, even get things going? Um, it's also one of those things where I, I, you know, again, I see this as kind of a mob case where you have to, it takes a long time to roll up. You have to start from the bottom and you roll, you roll up, you know, people from the low level to the mid-level till you get all the way at the top. It took forever to get John Gotti. You know, we gotta remember that. Um, and, uh, and, and so I, I give the do OJ actually a lot of leeway and c and all things considered, I think Jack Smith, a special counsel assigned to both the, um, the classified documents case. And, um, and the January 6th, uh, case has, has actually been moving quite fast, uh, much faster I think, than Mueller moved in, in my estimation. Um, hmm. Fast is, is fast, fast enough though, you know, like 2024 is next year. Like, they better move fast because they may not control, the Democrats may not control the White House in 2024 that we have to face that possibility, right? I don't think it's likely, but I think we have to face that. I wonder what our buddy, uh, Alan Liman, who we've had on the pod here before, uh, you know, it's, it seems to turn<laugh> can, can you turn the scandal key so hard? It breaks the lock.
Speaker 1<laugh><laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. Is it just 13 keys or is there now the 14th, the 15th, and the 16th
Speaker 2<laugh>. Right? Well, there, we're gonna pull out the 14th indictment key. Yeah.<laugh>. Well, I mean, it's not like, it's not like Ulysses s Grant who got what pulled over for drunken speeding or something on his horse. I, I'd haven't looked deeply into this one. Um,
Speaker 1<laugh> Yeah, man, I just, what the heck? I just, I, I want to live a period of my life where like a major event in the news just doesn't happen. Right. I just, I don't wanna live through these life-changing events anymore. Just gimme, gimme a year, gimme two years, you know, I don't, it doesn't need to be five years, actually, just gimme just some a period where I can live a boring life for just a little bit so I can raise my kids and we'd be fine with that. Like, I don't, right. Like, I'm done with this. So to wrap up, I, I, I really hope that, you know, I really hope that, you know, I, I just hope something happens, man. I really hope something happens. I, because I, the whole idea behind the, the, the hope that drives everyone to be proud of this country is that no one is above the law, right? And it's blatantly obvious that not only is one political party, uh, that currently holds a majority in the House of Representatives, but also a lot of majorities, uh, through state governments and municipal governments all throughout this country. Um, you know, and, and, and, but it's also, you know, I mean, look, what's happening with Elon Musk in Twitter looks, what? Look, what's happening with all the right wing media that's, that's occurring. I mean, 60 Minutes just had a fluff piece with Marjorie Taylor Green, like, Hey,
Speaker 2That was, was so disturbing.
Speaker 1What the heck? Like, it's, it's, although it's becoming normalized right now, and if the, if this, if this doesn't, this, this needs to be the end of this, like this, this needs to be the end of it.
Speaker 2We didn't bring up Fox who's all, which is also Dominion a, a major, major lawsuit. They also had a, uh, last week was a pretty pivotal week. They, um, yeah, they, they, um, lost pretty significantly in court. The trial is gonna move forward. Um, they, they, uh, the arguments that they were gonna make were blown out, uh, by the judge. Uh, it seems pretty bad. And then of course, there's another major company hanging out right behind them. This case is surely going to set a precedent, uh, for right wing media going forward in a way that impacts their ability to do what they've been doing to us, uh, significantly, I think. So this is all coming down all at the same time. Hmm. You know, um, and this, this podcast is a, it's a time capsule too, because like we, you know, Trump is supposed to, um, uh, surrender at two 15, uh, pm Eastern Time, two days from when we record this almost exactly two days. Um, we don't know what that's gonna look like, what's gonna happen. Nobody could have predicted, well, maybe we could have. Um, but what would actually happen on January 6th? We don't know what, what comes next. Uh, you know, uh, the, uh, DA's office has receive hundreds of death threats, people sending white powder. Uh, there's a bomb to Helen Brag Yeah. To, to the, uh, New York City Attorney General's office. Um, they're setting up barricades, they're setting up all this stuff. But it's like, you
Speaker 1Know, and there's a big, there's a, there's a big like smokescreen campaign going against now that we have this whole, uh, shooting in Tennessee, that the person happened to be someone, uh, uh, who was trans. And there has been this huge force on social media against, uh, uh, transgender, uh, yeah. Transgender, trans, trans community. And it is getting effing scary.
Speaker 2It is. It is. And, and my, it's, it's horrible. And the, I think the only saving grace th uh, that I can see coming out of this, this discussion is that it's th this is this story of, you know, the, the head, the focal point of all this fascist bigotry, oppression and threat, uh, to us has, has engulfed all other, all other media. So right wing groups can't really get their message out as easily. While this is the dominant story, they ca they can, they can, they just fa you know, it just fades into noise because all people are doing is eating popcorn furiously like me, ever since, ever since Michael Flynn got fired and got in trouble. I've been like, some, at some point, something's gonna happen to Trump legally. So we've been waiting a long time for, for last week. Um, but we don't, yeah. Like, we don't know what's gonna happen. We, we really don't know what's gonna happen.
Speaker 1Well, do you have any final words to send us off over until the next episode where we discuss, um, the, the Nazi on Wall Street podcast that should be released hopefully within the next few weeks?
Speaker 2Yeah, I, I, um, I know people are listening and, you know, uh, children and sensitive people cover your ears, uh, for a second. But, uh, my response to the Republican Party who's making this argument that, uh, no president should ever be prosecuted for anything. I have this to say, America has no, king America needs no king your king.
Speaker 1A Nazi on Wall Street is brought to you by elusive films maker of the a Nazi on Wall Street's film and television series. It was recorded and edited by EJ Russo. Original music was written and performed by Joseph Mulhallen. We can't bring these stories to life on screen without your support. So please consider donating to our crowdfunding campaign@elusivefilms.com. That's elusive hyphen films.com. For Jason Wexel Baum, I'm EJ Russo. Thank you. And we will see you next episode.